Comments Elsewhere

Dave: [The death penalty’s] real basis is to enforce just retribution against the criminal.

Most people who oppose the death penalty as a matter of principle deny that violent retribution can be just. Most people who don’t oppose the death penalty in principle but do oppose this or that instance in fact, deny that violent retribution against the condemned would be just in that particular case (for whatever reason).

Of course, you’re free to disagree with them and give reasons for your disagreement, but thus far you’ve only begged the question against them in the course of your description.

Dave: Before the strong state was established the job of executing those who allegedly deserved it was in the hands of the decedent’s family or clan. As mankind has become progressively civilized the state took over this function and rationalized and democratized it, which has resulted in increased justice and eliminated the problem of the killer’s family then seeking reciprocal vengeance and the resulting destructive vendettas. For the life of me I don’t see how this is so horrible.

Because if you think that the death penalty is unjust, increased bureaucratic rationality as applied to injustice is not something to be cheered. Again, you may not think that the death penalty is unjust, but since you’ve given no argument for that position, you can hardly expect this to convince those who don’t already view deliberate, non-defensive killing of prisoners as permissible.

Dave: Sure it is an imperfect procedure, but what system is perfect.

These happen to be people’s lives that you are fucking talking about. Even if you think that killing people who pose no further credible threat is, in principle, permissible, how many innocent lives do you consider acceptable losses for the sake of the “system”?

Dave: You will hear no comparable outcry when child killer John Gacy or similar persons are executed.

It’s true that people often find some of the condemned more sympathetic than others, and those who elicit more sympathy tend to get more people trying to defend their lives. That’s too bad, but so what? Some people don’t turn out for unsympathetic victims because they’re unprincipled; other people because they oppose the death penalty only in some specific cases but not in others; others because they genuinely oppose the death penalty in all cases but have only so much time and energy to spend and choose to spend it on some cases but not others. (And none of this has anything to do with whether or not the death penalty is in fact justified, of course.)

Dave: The public wants it. This is a democracy.

Oh, well. If it’s popular that must mean that it’s alright.

Thanks for clearing that one up.